Pumpkin Patch

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Welcome to the Pumpkin Patch!

This is the general discussion forum for the wiki. Ask any questions, share opinions, propose changes, etc.

Note that every page on this wiki has its own talk page, too. Just look for the "Discussion" tab at the top-left. (talkcontribs)

On each tour or year page of "Tour history", it is possible to view and filter songs played. Is it possible to create an option with additional filters? I have in mind "acoustic", primarily. That way, one could easily find all songs played acoustically per tour. Maybe there's already a way to do this, so if so, thanks in advance!

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

It can be done! I'll have to think about how this would work with the new design, but, it can be done. Thanks for the fine suggestion! (talkcontribs)

Awesome! Thanks. Other options for filtering: soundcheck or not, piano. In fact, any special notes would be awesome: songs first played in this year, songs last played in this year, etc. Just throwing out ideas. Great work on the site, BTW! It's a treasure for SP fans.

Squishedmargarine (talkcontribs)

One method of doing this would be manually creating category pages for specific versions of songs. An example being "Tonight Tonight full band performances" and then "Tonight Tonight acoustic performances" and even "Tonight Tonight solo performances" if you want to get extremely technical. I would be happy to help do it in this way, but we would need to divide up the songs between a group of people to ensure everything is done consistently and at a good pace.

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Yup, and that's how it's done over at Wikipedia! Categorization works, but is clunky and usually requires manual edits. I.e. we have Category:Acoustic songs but I got tired of having to maintain that list, and also songs aren't always acoustic (in this context we aren't talking about live shows). That category should probably be deleted.

Anyway, here at SPCodex, most everything aside from prose is stored in the database via an extension called Cargo. On live show pages, we use the {{live song}} template, which has flags for "acoustic" and "piano", among other things. These are all already stored in the database, so all we need is a way to query it. Using another extension, we can create what's called query forms, giving you a form to use to run various types of searches. That was the approach I was intending to use, I just haven't gotten around to setting it up yet.

In the meantime, you can query anything using SQL at Special:CargoQuery, but most people aren't going to know how to use that. For example, this query will give us all the shows where "Tonight, Tonight" was performed acoustically. There is also Special:Drilldown which is slightly more user-friendly, but I'm thinking making some pretty forms is the best implementation.

That said, we do not have data on whether something is a "full band" performance or not. It's relatively easy to add more flags, the issue then would be updating all the data again. @DavidB and I were once discussing adding a |with= flag, where you can add which musicians were performing and which instruments they used. This would only be used if/when the band members are not playing their usual instruments, or for solo songs, etc. With that data we could ascertain "full band" versus not. I think it'd be cool to add that!

DavidB (talkcontribs)

I would be remiss not pointing out that some of this info is available from the individual song pages, if not entirely broken down by tour. Pretty easy to get a list of acoustic or piano Tonight, Tonight performances.

Would also need to differentiate what actually counts as full band. 3 examples OTOH:

1) Billy, Iha and D'arcy appear on Regis & Kathie Lee with Mike Garson, but Aronoff and the percussionists get the morning off. Full band? (Another example being the early 2000 show played by Billy, Iha and Melissa that Jimmy had to skip.)

2) Most fall 2000 versions of If There is a God are Billy singing and Garson playing keyboard - not full band but also not solo. And how do you add Chris Holmes on songs like Rock On where he's encouraging the crowd to clap but not actually playing an instrument?

3) Mellon Collie in 2008 played by Gingger Shankar, Kris Pooley, Lisa H. + Stephen & Gabrial. Billy, Jeff, Jimmy and Ginger are offstage. Full band?

I still think that info about who does what on which song is better left to the individual tour pages when applicable, since it has the potential to get cluttered and confusing quickly, as I think I mentioned in that thread Musik linked above. Using Thirty-three from the Shiny tour as an example, you have Billy on acoustic guitar, Jeff and Iha on electric, Jack on a keyboard, Katie on electric piano and Jimmy on Mellotron. Also the 2016 In Plainsong shows, for which nearly every song after the first 8 had some sort of change from the one before.

On the plus side, I've already done the research re who's playing what for the Shiny tour. 2015 + 2016 In Plainsong, fall 2000 and fall 2008, which are all of the tours that had the most song-to-song variation. Just haven't figured out what makes the most sense aesthetically. (talkcontribs)

@DavidB - Alternative would be to give a general overview for who played what for each song on the relevant tour pages, and then to list only individual variations on the specific show pages. E.g., if there's a version of Thirty-three in the Shiny tour where they deviated from the usual arrangement.

Reply to "Advanced live song search"

"Kimaira" - supposed SP rarity

Seventieslord (talkcontribs)

I've been spending the last few days going over my SP files, updating to better bitrates, tagging, etc, and I came across this track. Based on the date, it came with a multi disc set of songs a fan sent me in 2003. Everything else in that set was legit, the usual stuff, gravity, pre-gish, faeomm, mcis demos, etc. But this song... I can't find anything about it in the wiki. I'm doubting it's even SP. But if it's not... What is it?

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Just now seeing this. The link is broken for me, but perhaps it's a misspelling of "Chimera"? I believe it pronounced with a 'K' sound instead of 'Ch'. Though an Oceania-era song wouldn't fit with the other tracks you mention that were on the disc. If there are any vocals, I assume we could identify Corgan's voice, and perhaps search for lyrics to find some results online, but I'd need to hear it first. Mind re-sharing?

Also, welcome to SPCodex! :)

Seventieslord (talkcontribs)
Crhill1979 (talkcontribs)

So this is a recollection from long ago, but just chiming in that I do remember this being a thing but possibly not a Pumpkins-related thing?

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

I finally got around to listening to this. I believe I've heard this before, also mislabeled as Smashing Pumpkins. The artwork is from the Rarities Volume 1 bootleg which isn't known to contain this track or anything like it. The drums are also distinctly not Chamberlin-esque, in my opinion, and the song overall doesn't sound like Pumpkins to me. (talkcontribs)

hello, good evening, can you share all the cd that the fan send it and i thing that is a karaoke version, from a website, and for the sound of the voices, it's concords to some era of the voice of Billy "Shithead" Corgan, but you can share the cd, please thanks

Seventieslord (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry, it will take me some time to dig it up from whatever bootleg CD it came from, if I even still have it.

the artwork may have been inadvertently added to this file by me - it likely had none when I acquired it.

Reply to ""Kimaira" - supposed SP rarity"

"Why I am So Tired?" 1991 Gish Demo, Recorted

2 (talkcontribs)

Hello everybody, i don't know that you know about this song, Why I am So Tired? is a demo from the 1991 Smashing Pumpkins' debut album Gish, the first appereance of this song was on the 1993 VHS Vieuphoria, in the credits as fond song, later, when the sountrack was released, Why I am so tired, appeared complete, but, not complete, all the 15 minutes, at the final of the Earphoria cut, the song doesn't finished, later, 10 years later, in the 2012 Pisces Iscariot reissue, at the 2nd CD, the last song was (drum roll) Why i am so tired, all dudes that has their doubs about the unfinish cut of the song, think that was the COMPLETE song, so their surprises theres only the remaster, no complete song, so the mystery, was, what happened at the final of the song, my theory was that in the spcodex page about this song, this song was recorded while waiting that James Iha comes to the studio, so my theory, was that when the song was in recording, James Iha interrump so the song were incomplete, with regrabations, but in the Gish page, say that it would be part of the album, so what happend to the song

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

I don't completely follow what you're proposing (if you are proposing anything?), but anyway the article is at "Why Am I So Tired" (not "Why I am So Tried?"). As you say the story (according to SPFreaks) is that it was recorded why waiting for James to arrive in the studio.

Reply to ""Why I am So Tired?" 1991 Gish Demo, Recorted"
MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

If you're reading this, you're among the first to join SPCodex! Remember this so you can brag about it later.

For reals, thank you all for joining! I hope you like what I've done with the place. I put together a FAQ that might help you get started.

Some of you may remember how this began. In late March 2020, I pitched the idea for a fan-maintained wiki to Billy Corgan on Instagram and he seemed very fond of it. However, a proper collaboration with legal clearances could not be arranged (which isn't surprising, and totally fine :)

Anyway, I am thrilled you are here! Please kindly do whatever the fuck you want to. There are only a few rules and they can largely be ignored. Be bold and edit mercilessly. Have fun. Welcome to SPCodex!🎃🎃🤘🤘

Semidetached (talkcontribs)

Nice work you've done here! Hoping to help in some small way.  :)

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for joining us! I've been working mostly alone here for a long while now, so I'm afraid I've done a poor job of documenting how things work. I'll get to improving that soon, but for now just ask if you need help :) If you're looking for something to do, there's some ideas over at SPCodex:To-do list. Right now I'm finishing up the Tour history. Cheers and welcome :) (talkcontribs)

You're doing Gods work

Miryclay (talkcontribs)

Hi everyone,

I am long time forum user and SP fan. I thought I would join and share some stubs as well that are in my contributions. Maybe a personlaized show thread with songs heard for fans could be something the already busy moderarors could consider.

Thanks for having me and rock on!


MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Awesome, thank you Miryclay and welcome to SPCodex! I'll follow up with you about your uploads on your talk page shortly.

As for your idea, I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean a way for fans to share what songs they've seen performed live? Perhaps as a software feature, like how you can track which shows you've seen on setlist.fm?

At any rate, you're welcome to use this venue, the Pumpkin Patch, to socialize in any way you want. Your userpage is also a place for you to express yourself, and list which shows you've been to, whatever you want! See my userpage for example.

Miryclay (talkcontribs)

I have re-uploaded with corrected titles!

Reply to "First post!"
Dmehus (talkcontribs)

Hi MusikAnimal and other Smashing Pumpkins wiki editors,

I'm a Miraheze Steward, and I'm not sure if you would ever have a need for this or not, but I thought I'd let you know that on Miraheze, we have a global interwiki table on Meta Wiki (which Stewards can edit) and which appears on every Miraheze-hosted wiki. However, each wiki has the ability to have entries added to their local interwiki table, either by a global interwiki administrator or steward or by a local interwiki administrator. While this is a restricted user group, only grantable by Stewards, for mainly security reasons, it is possible to hold a local election somewhere prominently on your wiki, then after at least seven (7) calendar days have passed, post a note on Stewards' noticeboard (or, alternatively, my local user talk page on this wiki, if you prefer), and we will then assess your local interwiki administrator election. The global policy requirements for the group are contained on the global policy page. Note that you can override the global interwiki table prefixes, too, and revi does this on his wiki in particular.

MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the heads up. I don't think we have a need for any additional interwiki prefixes, but if we do it's good to know there's a means to get them added. Cheers!

Reply to "Editing the local interwiki table on solarawiki"

Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream

3 (talkcontribs)

You could throw gish in there if you please but this is like the Blue vs Pinkerton debate that ends up in flames, so where better else to ask for opinions? I think Mellon Collie is a beautifully orchestrated and executed masterpiece that explores so many genres. I love Siamese Dream aswell but it will never reach the same level as Mellon Collie in my book. (talkcontribs)


MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

Hello and welcome! Your IP belongs to a university, so each of you appear like the same editor here! Feel free to create an account if you want so you can have your own identity :)

Anyways, I personally am in the same camp, too. I love Siamese Dream but it's hard to top the masterpiece that is Mellon Collie. I think in all of rock history, it's one of the most ambitious albums, from the music itself all the way down to the little dudes that are the page numbers in the lyric book. The attention to detail is just amazeballs :)

Reply to "Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream"
MusikAnimal (talkcontribs)

The geotagging of (almost) all live shows has been completed, and I have added maps to all the tour pages. For example, see Adore tour#Map. If any coordinates look wrong, you can correct them by editing the page for the corresponding show (or the corresponding venue page, where applicable).

There are also some shows still missing coordinates, if you're interested in helping out. See the list at Category:Live performances with missing coordinates. Most of these I couldn't conclusively figure out what the coordinates are, or they may in fact be intentionally unknown (for instance the shows that took place at private residences).

Cheers and hope you all enjoy this new feature!

Reply to "Maps have arrived!"
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